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harry reid says there's not. seems to me more of the same ping-pong we've had over the last few days. >> were no closer to steering away from the cliff. we are much closer to the cliff. the president made a round of calls last night to talk to congressional leaders about the need to get something done. no one has that produced in the form of a bill. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is saying this is the first contact he's had from a democrat since thanksgiving. you need unanimous continue sent for a lot of things to happen. >> and we're now hearing that the white house is denying there's a new plan from the president. so the white house and harry reid are both denying scott brown and gopas about this new physical cliff plan which puts us back to square one. you tackled this issue of john boehner's control over his conference. in a really interesting way. you basically said he's a substitute teacher in the sense that even when he disciplines folks like holtzcamp who were insubordinate and ripped them of comm
harry reid says there's not. seems to me more of the same ping-pong we've had over the last few days. >> were no closer to steering away from the cliff. we are much closer to the cliff. the president made a round of calls last night to talk to congressional leaders about the need to get something done. no one has that produced in the form of a bill. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is saying this is the first contact he's had from a democrat since thanksgiving. you need unanimous...
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harry reid says time is running hout. he doesn't know if they could go through the legislative hurdles. if they have the votes around here, they can legislate the sky is green and the grass is blue. that's not an issue. what harry reid is really saying is mitch mcconnell, get on board, don't try to filibuster. of course they're talking about a bill that had raise capital on couples making more than $250,000 a year, and do a few other nuts and bolts that are deemed the bare minimum that the president wants to see done before we hit january 1st. i've got to tell you, though, getting back to the votes, the votes simply aren't there in the house of representatives for that. they're likely not even there in the senate, so we're back at square one, amazing as it is to say at this point, thomas. >> when we talk about what we know about the president, as we expect him to return to washington landing at andrews air force base, but what more do we know about this phone calls or the phone calls that went out to the four congressiona
harry reid says time is running hout. he doesn't know if they could go through the legislative hurdles. if they have the votes around here, they can legislate the sky is green and the grass is blue. that's not an issue. what harry reid is really saying is mitch mcconnell, get on board, don't try to filibuster. of course they're talking about a bill that had raise capital on couples making more than $250,000 a year, and do a few other nuts and bolts that are deemed the bare minimum that the...
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harry reid is speaking on the floor. let's take a listen. >> because americans' taxes are approaching the wrong direction come the first of this year, americans will have less income than they have today. if we go over the cliff, the house of representatives, as we speak, with four days left after today before the first of the year aren't here with the speaker having told them they'll give them 48 hours notice. i can't imagine their consciences where they are around the country and we're here trying to get something done. they are not in washington, d.c. the house of representatives are not here. they couldn't even get the leadership together yesterday. they had to do it with a teleconference. republican leadership. if we go over the cliff, we'll be left with the knowledge that could have been about a single vote. mr. speaker, prior to this session starting today, the presiding officer and i had a conversation about how things have changed around here. i served in the house of representatives. there's 435 members of the
harry reid is speaking on the floor. let's take a listen. >> because americans' taxes are approaching the wrong direction come the first of this year, americans will have less income than they have today. if we go over the cliff, the house of representatives, as we speak, with four days left after today before the first of the year aren't here with the speaker having told them they'll give them 48 hours notice. i can't imagine their consciences where they are around the country and we're...
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the democrats are wasting no time in the event harry reid needs the vote to avert the fiscal cliff. but the house? a different story. speaker john boehner held a conference call with republican leadership today, and basically decided to do nothing. there are no immediate plans to return to washington. even as that decision is made, how members have 48 hours to get there. house republican leadership released a statement today reading in part, the house has acted on two bills which collectively would avert the entire fiscal cliff if enacted. those bills await action by the senate if the senate will not approve and send them to the president to be signed into law in their current form. they must be amended and returned to the house. the house will take this action on whatever the senate can pass, but the senate must first act. the house has passed bills that would never pass the senate. speaker boehner's position is a joke. senate majority leader harry reid responded, house republicans pushed middle class families closer to the blip by wasting an entire week with their incompetent plan
the democrats are wasting no time in the event harry reid needs the vote to avert the fiscal cliff. but the house? a different story. speaker john boehner held a conference call with republican leadership today, and basically decided to do nothing. there are no immediate plans to return to washington. even as that decision is made, how members have 48 hours to get there. house republican leadership released a statement today reading in part, the house has acted on two bills which collectively...
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they simply said it's up to harry reid in the senate. is he preparing a bill? there was a lot of talk of small ball. a bill to allow taxes to go up on everybody or at least couples that make more than $250,000 a year. $200,000 with single filers. harry reid said he is not going to prepare a bill unless mitch mcconnell allows it to come for a vote for a simple majority. they are seeking assurances that he won't try to block it. for his part he said it's up to the president to lead. unclear if anything is going to happen today. it's becoming more and more likely we will hit january 1st without a resolution. >> peter, obviously the president gets back a little bit from now. what are we hearing about their strategy? we have that very effective bully pulpit? >> it's a good question. the president is supposed to arrive a couple hours from now. 72 degrees for honolulu. better hope he brings sunshine back with him. the real challenge is when he gets here, there is barely 100 hours before the headline hits. he said a short time ago describing their strategy and it remai
they simply said it's up to harry reid in the senate. is he preparing a bill? there was a lot of talk of small ball. a bill to allow taxes to go up on everybody or at least couples that make more than $250,000 a year. $200,000 with single filers. harry reid said he is not going to prepare a bill unless mitch mcconnell allows it to come for a vote for a simple majority. they are seeking assurances that he won't try to block it. for his part he said it's up to the president to lead. unclear if...
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i think if harry reid does it, fine. let him do it. we need to think of what the country needs more than what each party does and concerned about the election on january 3rd? if nothing happens, he may have to worry about the election, john boehner. what i would advise him to do, he doesn't seek my advice, let me give you some advice. be what you want to be. do what you have to do. and democrats will support you if you do that. >> do you think at this point there's even enough time to get a deal done? realist achally. >> absolutely. there is time. now, i know we went out of session today and won't be in session technically until monday. that can change over the weekend. through emergency. so what happens to saturday and sunday? i mean, we all rather be with our families and friends but the fact is america needs this done right now. you know what's disappointed me most of all, craig? talking heads, many of them on television and some members of my own party saying, well, it won't be as bad. we'll take it up in the new congress. i think
i think if harry reid does it, fine. let him do it. we need to think of what the country needs more than what each party does and concerned about the election on january 3rd? if nothing happens, he may have to worry about the election, john boehner. what i would advise him to do, he doesn't seek my advice, let me give you some advice. be what you want to be. do what you have to do. and democrats will support you if you do that. >> do you think at this point there's even enough time to get...
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the president then met with harry reid and talked to john boehner by phone and we have heard harry reid is working on legislation, perhaps mitch mcconnell's involved in this, as well. so when we look at this, david, who's pulling the strings now? who will sit down and make the deal happen? >> there's eyes on mitch mcconnell. he's been influential in past debt negotiations. a year and a half ago in sort of coming up with something that his fellow republicans would like and i think the question is, though, as meredith said, john boehner doesn't seem to have full control of his caucus and looking at the house, is boehner comfortable with moving something with a majority of democratic support and some republican support to put it over the threshold. looks like there's a lot of shifting going on about who to blame going over the cliff and probably not a good sign because they're setting up who to blame and might be an inkling to come. >> the votes not on the side of boehner last week, meredith, if there's a bipartisan deal out of the senate, will those who were not for john boehner's plan "b
the president then met with harry reid and talked to john boehner by phone and we have heard harry reid is working on legislation, perhaps mitch mcconnell's involved in this, as well. so when we look at this, david, who's pulling the strings now? who will sit down and make the deal happen? >> there's eyes on mitch mcconnell. he's been influential in past debt negotiations. a year and a half ago in sort of coming up with something that his fellow republicans would like and i think the...
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nothing is stirring, not even harry reid. yes, i'm still in the christmas spirit. the president meanwhile is in hawaii and won't be returning until tomorrow. now, normally nothing happening would not be big news in washington. nothing happening is kind of the status quo in washington. getting nothing done is to our political system as saying great is to tony the tiger. it's just kind of what we do now. right now, this week, nothing happening is huge news. the reason is that usually when washington doesn't do anything nothing happens. you do nothing, nothing happens. that's how it goes. in fact that's why people call it doing nothing. after you do it, nothing occurs. if washington doesn't do something, a lot happens. all the bush tax cuts expire, the payroll tax cuts expire. doctors participating in medicare, see their reimbursements cut by more than 25%. good luck getting a doctor then. more than a trillion dollars in spending cuts are triggered. the economy probably falls back into recession, and merry christmas and happy new year from washington to you, the ameri
nothing is stirring, not even harry reid. yes, i'm still in the christmas spirit. the president meanwhile is in hawaii and won't be returning until tomorrow. now, normally nothing happening would not be big news in washington. nothing happening is kind of the status quo in washington. getting nothing done is to our political system as saying great is to tony the tiger. it's just kind of what we do now. right now, this week, nothing happening is huge news. the reason is that usually when...
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. >> harry reid is working on legislation. >> harry reid, the congress and the president. >> the president is cutting his hawaii vacation short to deal with the fiscal cliff. >> really, it's kind of like falling down stairs. we have a dysfunctional congress. >> speaker boehner needs to bring his party along. >> it's pretty clear that he could not bring them along. >> john boehner doesn't seem to have full control of his caucus. >> they were this close. >> the republicans will be blamed. >> they were this close to a solution. >> we're going to head over that cliff. >> i know it's hard for the republicans. the minute those leaders move forward, they get viscerated. >> guns shouldn't be available for anyone, any time, anywhere. >> the conversation still wages on. >> its plan to add more guns to schools. >> a completely dumb-ass idea. >> i don't think the nra is listening. >> you can call it whatever you want to call it. >> congress hasn't confirmed the director of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. >> dysfunctional, dysfunctional, dysfunctional congress. >> we're not going to allow
. >> harry reid is working on legislation. >> harry reid, the congress and the president. >> the president is cutting his hawaii vacation short to deal with the fiscal cliff. >> really, it's kind of like falling down stairs. we have a dysfunctional congress. >> speaker boehner needs to bring his party along. >> it's pretty clear that he could not bring them along. >> john boehner doesn't seem to have full control of his caucus. >> they were this...
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harry reid, president obama, and a little bit of mitch mcconnell. what is possible of making a deal? >> the ball seems to be in mitch mcconnell's court. does he filibuster anything that harry reid ends up making with president obama? we have a paired down legislation extending for income below $250,000 and doing something with unemployment insurance that you were talking about? the question is a senate filibuster, democrats need 60 votes and republican votes, mcconnell ends up filibustering and will there be senators who support the legislation and blocking the filibuster. a lot of gymsmanship and republicans when you lock at the situation in the house and the inability to pass along the other things, they are on the verge of taking a lot of blame if they filibuster the legislation and the house doesn't act on it. >> and only democratic support developing here. how much is he going to agree with the president when he has the election in 2014? some folks don't want to appear in any way too close to president obama right now. >> let's move on in terms
harry reid, president obama, and a little bit of mitch mcconnell. what is possible of making a deal? >> the ball seems to be in mitch mcconnell's court. does he filibuster anything that harry reid ends up making with president obama? we have a paired down legislation extending for income below $250,000 and doing something with unemployment insurance that you were talking about? the question is a senate filibuster, democrats need 60 votes and republican votes, mcconnell ends up...
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that was a very personal shot from harry reid. is it accurate to say, open question, that speaker boehner is worried about staying speaker? >> yes. he's definitely -- i think he's not worried about his election on january 3rd, but that's not the end of it. you know, i think he's worried about his speakership every day he's speaker -- >> do you agree with that, he's worried he may be losing out or being thrown out of the speakership by his own party? >> for sure. he spent the first two years of his speakership looking over his shoulder as the camera shows of eric cantor right behind him ready -- >> but cantor is with him now, isn't he? hasn't his number two guy joined him? >> he's his number two guy and supporter, but he's the spiritual leader of the tea party caucus there, and that's the group that seems to be calling the shots right now in the house of representatives. >> let's talk about the republican party. let's try to be really analytical here. you know, to me two things happen in every election. one, somebody wins, somebody
that was a very personal shot from harry reid. is it accurate to say, open question, that speaker boehner is worried about staying speaker? >> yes. he's definitely -- i think he's not worried about his election on january 3rd, but that's not the end of it. you know, i think he's worried about his speakership every day he's speaker -- >> do you agree with that, he's worried he may be losing out or being thrown out of the speakership by his own party? >> for sure. he spent the...
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go ahead. >> the reason we took this to the edge is because harry reid can't pass a budget out of the senate. if washington was working fine, the budgets would pass in april lake they do every year, we would spend the next six months discussing it and be on the floor in november in a conference report and these situations would be avoided. >> to brad's point, i would not let it go -- it's like a debate. i think you get a minute here to respond. but john boehner has taken the lion's share of blame for plan "b", was harry reid, at the end of the day, the deal came to be mcconnell and biden cut the deal. what was reid's role? did he play the role he should have played? >> i think he played the role. i think the role is, we need to get a deal. we need to save middle class families from having their taxes go up. whether you're at the forefront or you're huddled back with your troops, making sure you've got the votes, i think he gets that credit. >> i will say, an 89-8 vote in the senate, they almost never vote that overwhelmingly. brad mentioned this, i want to play something. brad said he
go ahead. >> the reason we took this to the edge is because harry reid can't pass a budget out of the senate. if washington was working fine, the budgets would pass in april lake they do every year, we would spend the next six months discussing it and be on the floor in november in a conference report and these situations would be avoided. >> to brad's point, i would not let it go -- it's like a debate. i think you get a minute here to respond. but john boehner has taken the lion's...
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reid, speaker boehner, nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell. everybody worked very hard on this, and i appreciate it. joe, once again, i want to thank you for your great work. under this law, 90% of americans and 97% of small businesses will not see their income taxes go up. millions of families will continue to receive tax credits to help raise their kids and send them to college. companies will continue to receive tax credits for the research that they do, and then spends they make, and a clean energy jobs they create. the americans out of work but out there looking, pounding the pavement every day, are going to continue to receive unemployment benefits as long as they are actively looking for a job. but, i think we all recognize that this law is just one step in the broader effort to strengthen our economy and brought an opportunity for everybody. the fact is, the deficit is still too high. and we are still investing too little in the things that we need for the economy to grow as fast as it should. that's why speaker boehner and i originall
reid, speaker boehner, nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell. everybody worked very hard on this, and i appreciate it. joe, once again, i want to thank you for your great work. under this law, 90% of americans and 97% of small businesses will not see their income taxes go up. millions of families will continue to receive tax credits to help raise their kids and send them to college. companies will continue to receive tax credits for the research that they do, and then spends they make, and a clean...
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mcconnell basically said to reid i can't help on this one. how did harry reid respond? this way. >> speaker boehner should call members of the house back to washington today. he shouldn't have let them go, in fact. they're not here. they are not here. john boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on firm financial footing. >> right. so that's pretty much where we are now. boehner's out, mcconnell's out. reid says it's up to boehner, white house can't get boehner to talk to them. it's kind of a mess, senator schatz. and it is now part of your party. so what is the next move? there is late news tonight that president obama will convene a meeting of congressional leaders at the white house tomorrow afternoon to discuss the current impasse. and to give you a spirit of the compromise and sense of goodwill toward men in which republican house speaker john boehner is approaching this meeting here is a statement we were e-mailed by brendan bock. "tomorrow speaker boehner will attend a meeting where he will continue to stress that th
mcconnell basically said to reid i can't help on this one. how did harry reid respond? this way. >> speaker boehner should call members of the house back to washington today. he shouldn't have let them go, in fact. they're not here. they are not here. john boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on firm financial footing. >> right. so that's pretty much where we are now. boehner's out, mcconnell's out. reid says it's up to boehner,...
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who does harry reid have to negotiate with them? where does he go? >> the president and harry reid can only negotiate so much. >> the question becomes if they can get a bill for 250 and below perhaps with the unemployment insurance attached to it, maybe put in sweetener with the estate tax, could they guarantee that would pass the house of representatives? from the statement we do not know that. >> jared, last week it was speaker boehner himself who could not get his own bill passed, the plan "b." and yet here he is trying to put it back on democrats and the president to get the bill passed making it clear they're not prepared to come back to washington and do anything to avoid the fiscal cliff. what do you think's going to happen? >> well, i thought luke took us eloquently through all the scenarios. but to me this is all simple. it really comes down to this. is john boehner willing to introduce a compromise plan in the house of the type the president offered before he left? extend the tax cuts only for the 250 and below. you kick the sequester down
who does harry reid have to negotiate with them? where does he go? >> the president and harry reid can only negotiate so much. >> the question becomes if they can get a bill for 250 and below perhaps with the unemployment insurance attached to it, maybe put in sweetener with the estate tax, could they guarantee that would pass the house of representatives? from the statement we do not know that. >> jared, last week it was speaker boehner himself who could not get his own bill...
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address something politico is reporting this morning that last week on friday john boehner walked past harry reid and said, pardon me, "go f yourself" and then repeated it and bragged about it, according to political sources. first of all, have you heard about this? and if this is the level of animosity, what hope is there a couple months down the road when these issues come up? >> i don't know if he said that and i don't know if he did say it whether or not that represents in some way the level of animosity. unfortunately in these kinds of situations, often times people do say things and they say them in ways that others may seem unacceptable and this goes on whether or not it's in the capital, in the newsroom, on plathe playground. it just happens to be the way that sometimes americans express themselves. i don't know that he did that way. >> congresswoman maxine waters, it is good to you have on the program. thank you very much. >> you're certainly welcome. >> while the house approved this deal, there was no deal to send aid to the victims of hurricane sandy. let me play for you what repu
address something politico is reporting this morning that last week on friday john boehner walked past harry reid and said, pardon me, "go f yourself" and then repeated it and bragged about it, according to political sources. first of all, have you heard about this? and if this is the level of animosity, what hope is there a couple months down the road when these issues come up? >> i don't know if he said that and i don't know if he did say it whether or not that represents in...
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we looked at harry reid, mitch mcconnell, john boehner, et al, and roll call now freeline. >> on mondays i'm going to start writing a column, moving away from my editing duties and putting on my writing hat again. >> there's a great piece in "national journal," why rubio voted for this deal. >> the most important divide until we create a new one. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." tomorrow on the show, it's jobs day. we'll have the breaking news on the december unemployment report. coming up next, chris jansing. bye-bye. self. with unitedhealthcare, i get personalized information and rewards for addressing my health risks. but she's still going to give me a heart attack. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.
we looked at harry reid, mitch mcconnell, john boehner, et al, and roll call now freeline. >> on mondays i'm going to start writing a column, moving away from my editing duties and putting on my writing hat again. >> there's a great piece in "national journal," why rubio voted for this deal. >> the most important divide until we create a new one. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." tomorrow on the show, it's jobs day. we'll have the breaking...
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what's harry reid left to do right now? >> i'm not sure $250,000 could get through the house or senate at this point. republicans are signaling, as kay bailey hutchison just did, they want to move to $500,000. i think that would be a tough lift considering president obama offered $400,000 with $2 trillion in deficit reduction. >> from where you sit right now, i mean, you're so into the house gop, jake, i'm surprised you didn't end up in boehner's suitcase, we look like we're going over. >> it looks like that's the case and that's what gop aides are telling us today, it's very difficult and democrats are saying this too, it's difficult to see a way we avert the fiscal cliff at this point with how slow the senate operates, no plan right now, house is nowhere, and it's almost january. >> highway to the danger zone, jake sherman, politico, thank you so much for joining us, we appreciate it. >>> developing news on president george h.w. bush's health. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. we've all had those moments. w
what's harry reid left to do right now? >> i'm not sure $250,000 could get through the house or senate at this point. republicans are signaling, as kay bailey hutchison just did, they want to move to $500,000. i think that would be a tough lift considering president obama offered $400,000 with $2 trillion in deficit reduction. >> from where you sit right now, i mean, you're so into the house gop, jake, i'm surprised you didn't end up in boehner's suitcase, we look like we're going...
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. >> we've heard that he reached out to harry reid and nancy pelosi and he spoke with them about everything that was going to take place tonight. what else do we know with how he responded to what's happening? >> well, it's interesting. the president chose today to have one of those campaign-style events with ordinary americans in the white house and an auditorium in the white house compound today. the president sort of came out in a jovial, joking matter. he painted a picture of a deal that was all but done, but he got in a lot of jabs, subtle and otherwise, at republicans and really angered folks. john mccain said he didn't know whether he was sad or angered by what the president had said. cooler heads have obviously prevailed here. and we do know that the president had been on the phone working this, even though joe biden was sort of the front man, flying point, if you will. and negotiations with mitch mcconnell. so, sure, the president has been very involved. he, you know, he has led this campaign style effort to try to force republicans' hand. again, many of those folks are a little bi
. >> we've heard that he reached out to harry reid and nancy pelosi and he spoke with them about everything that was going to take place tonight. what else do we know with how he responded to what's happening? >> well, it's interesting. the president chose today to have one of those campaign-style events with ordinary americans in the white house and an auditorium in the white house compound today. the president sort of came out in a jovial, joking matter. he painted a picture of a...
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political reports that on friday, he walked up to senator harry reid, just steps away from the oval office and unleashed an obscenity. reid asked him what it was all about and boehner said it again. the gop is falling apart. but we can't let that crack up hurt the country. joining me now is congress won january shakowski and mi mia malikah henderson. happy new year to both of you. >> congresswoman, how can democrats deal with the republican party that's in such disarray? >> well, i actually liked what happened last night. that is john boehner said he didn't need to follow the rule of having the majority of the majority party. but, actually, did let the house work its will. and a majority of democrats, all but 16, and 8 a rep5 republican able to move the country forward. i'm hoping that that will be a pattern and, actually, that will remain. now, whether or not the leadership is going to be able to stay as it is or there's going to be this internal battling. but, honestly, what we have among so many of the republicans and in the house of representatives and now, even pat thume in the senate
political reports that on friday, he walked up to senator harry reid, just steps away from the oval office and unleashed an obscenity. reid asked him what it was all about and boehner said it again. the gop is falling apart. but we can't let that crack up hurt the country. joining me now is congress won january shakowski and mi mia malikah henderson. happy new year to both of you. >> congresswoman, how can democrats deal with the republican party that's in such disarray? >> well, i...
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yesterday who would have thought that after senator mcconnell, harry reid, 40 republican senators, 89 senators come to an agreement with the president of the united states and the vice president of the united states that this would still be up for grabs? the conventional wisdom was we could get this done fairly simply and quickly. but you have this extremism among the house republicans. they will invent any excuse they can find to get to no. we would like to get to yes. and i hope we can do that this evening. >> now, after this fight is over on the fiscal cliff, what opinions should americans have of congress? >> well, they should have low opinions of congress. western sent here to get things done. we were sent here to state our disagreements and move on. americans have every right to be frustrated with the house republican caucus that has been about obstruction, refused to compromise. that won't even take yes for an answer when we give them what they want. they have every right to be frustrated with a congress here. >> thank you so much. steve israel, thank you. we'll have the latest
yesterday who would have thought that after senator mcconnell, harry reid, 40 republican senators, 89 senators come to an agreement with the president of the united states and the vice president of the united states that this would still be up for grabs? the conventional wisdom was we could get this done fairly simply and quickly. but you have this extremism among the house republicans. they will invent any excuse they can find to get to no. we would like to get to yes. and i hope we can do...
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the problem is we have had harry reid and the senate democrats haven't passed a budget plan in three years and they're looking at just raising taxes. we need to seriously address the spending in this country and we haven't had that from the democrats. we have to have that for things to pass. really get this deficit under control. >> all right. so keith, that was a loud sigh that you just gave. >> you heard that? >> i think everybody at home just heard that. so you obviously do not agree with alice's assessment there. i want to show debbie wasserman-schultz's quote. no 48-notice on house votes just yet. the president has a lot to gain politically with the blame on republicans for letting all of the country go over the cliff and the fact that they seem to hold on with the death grip for millionaires in this country. >> the republicans will be blamed it seems according to the polls going over the fiscal cliff but the president is responsible and wants the deal. he's been trying to negotiate by making reasonable concessions. lowered the revenue number. he's increased the tax limit from $
the problem is we have had harry reid and the senate democrats haven't passed a budget plan in three years and they're looking at just raising taxes. we need to seriously address the spending in this country and we haven't had that from the democrats. we have to have that for things to pass. really get this deficit under control. >> all right. so keith, that was a loud sigh that you just gave. >> you heard that? >> i think everybody at home just heard that. so you obviously do...